roundtable: Re: Congress Brokers Censorship Deal

roundtable: Re: Congress Brokers Censorship Deal

Re: Congress Brokers Censorship Deal

Karl Denninger, MCSNet (karl@mcs.com)
Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:39:57 -0600 (CST) 

Message-Id: <m0tMczl-000IDUC@venus.mcs.com>
Subject: Re: Congress Brokers Censorship Deal
To: paulp@CERF.NET (Paul Phillips)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:39:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" <karl@mcs.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951203180417.2591F-100000@nic.cerf.net> from "Paul Phillips" at Dec 3, 95 06:14:34 pm


> On Sat, 2 Dec 1995, Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote:
> 
> > If the ISPs out there had taken steps to remove (1) the bestiality and 
> > (2) the child pornography that is in the erotic pictures groups *every 
> > day* these folks wouldn't have had enough ammunition to pass legislation 
> > dealing with the rest.
> 
> This can be neither proven nor disproven now, but I disagree.  The usual 
> stated purpose of this kind of legislation is to make the Internet safe 
> for children (where "safe" carries the rather twisted meaning that they 
> will not be able to obtain pornography.) This is impossible, and it will 
> only takes one or two WWW sites with clearly indecent pictures to provide 
> lawmakers with all the ammunition they need.  The ISPs are only one 
> factor, it's all just one giant amorphous unsafe-for-the-kids Internet as 
> far as they're concerned.
> 
> It has nothing to do with pornography, it's just the first step in the 
> coming attempts at clampdown.  It's a lever and a very good one.  These 
> guys know just how to get people to give up their freedom a step at a time.
> 
> The water just went up a few degrees and some of the frogs have barely 
> noticed -- in fact, they're blaming the other frogs.
> 
> --
> Paul Phillips                                 | "Click _here_ if you do not

Give me a break.

Its not the international sites that are the problem.  If it were, the
proposal would be to lock down the international gateways.

The problem here is *local* folks.  We're talking "in the US".

That means that one or more US ISPs and/or US sites are *directly* 
responsible for this.  As in cooperating to provide the content, space, 
and transport for this material.

Paul, you're trying to raise the siren call of "they want to stop us from
TALKING!  Oh no!!!!!"   That claim is bull and you know it.

I'm quite tired of people deciding to take events and try to make a big
political statement out of it.  The facts of the matter are that:

1)   The law is reactionary.  How do you get this kind of law?  Have a
     congressional session where the Senate is "treated" to a picture 
     of a dog screwing a human, courtesy of a US web site.

2)   How does it get changed into "save the children"?  Point Netscape
     at one of the usenet groups (alt.sex.pedophilia) where you will find
     pictures of 10-year old, clearly pre-pubescent, girls being sexually
     abused by men four times their age.

This material is, right now, being distributed by US sites.  Some of that 
material, particularly the newsgroups, I *know* is there -- because its 
right on some of our competitor's newsspools, and we have verified same.

NEITHER of the above examples are legal to provide to *anyone* in 
Illinois.  Yet we have providers out there who provide transit (arguably 
a common-carrier style scenario) and *DISTRIBUTION* (via the newsgroups) 
of this material.  Some of them even make a big marketing splash out of 
their "uncensored" access.  That's just a polite way of saying that they 
provide access to illegal material, knowingly and willingly.

I predicted this.  Our industry has REFUSED to take reasonable pro-active
steps to insure that (1) publishers are identifyable, and (2) sites act
responsbily (how many who run an ISP and also read one of these lists STILL
have that material on their systems?) when informed about areas which carry,
as their mission, illegal material.

I, for one, am NOT surprised that the government got involved.  I am
saddened that there are those in our industry who wish to point fingers at
"big, bad government" when the real issue is blatently irresponsible
behavior on the part of businesspeople -- all in the persuit of "an extra
buck".

Those of you who advertise, promote, and make a marketing point out of an
"uncensored" feed -- you're the ones directly responsible for this.  It is 
the pig-headed capitalists who are interested in using the provision of 
illegal material as a marketing tool (who can argue with "sex sells" -- 
its axiomatic) that are responsible for this law.

Perhaps now you will be *forced* to be socially responsible.  It would 
have been easier if you took the steps voluntarily.  Now the costs get 
imposed on all of us as a result of your short-sighted decision-making.

--
--
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